LOS ANGELES – It was all smiles for the Lakers on Tuesday night in a smashing return to Staples Center for Pau Gasol’s home debut. The Lakers had such an easy time with the Atlanta Hawks — leading by a season-high 41 points at one point — that Gasol’s 23-point game seemed effortless.
Gasol did leave the Lakers’ bench area in the final minutes, feeling the effects of his upper respiratory infection. But he made 7 of 11 shots from the field and 9 of 10 foul shots in a 30-minute outing.
The Lakers avenged their loss in Atlanta a week ago, when Joe Johnson outplayed Bryant, Josh Smith outplayed Lamar Odom and Al Horford outplayed Gasol. Twice in the early going, Bryant flat-out took the ball from Johnson while playing one-on-one defense; Bryant’s five steals were an indication that he remains capable of playing with his injured right pinkie.
Bryant also had 23 points, and Odom had 17 points.
THIS IS HOW WE DO IT
Knicks owner James Dolan had a courtside seat near the Lakers’ bench, sitting next to music executive Irving Azoff.
QUICK SPIN
Gasol showed his speed and savvy midway through the first quarter when he saw Zaza Pachulia enter the game for Atlanta and immediately spun past the cold Hawks backup center for a foul and a dunk.
BOARD CHAIRMAN
Lamar Odom had 10 rebounds in the game’s first 15 minutes … which put him on pace for 32 in the game. He finished with 15 rebounds in 33 minutes of play.
NEXT
Lakers at Phoenix, 6 p.m. Tuesday, KCAL/9, ESPN, KLAC/570
KD - You ever think that it wasn’t Shaq all along that “raised” young guards like Penny, Kobe, and DWade? That,in fact, it’s Kobe who raises and develops centers? Think about it- from Shaq, to Kwame, to Bynum, to Gasol - Kobe makes them all look better than they would on their own. He made Kwame look servicable, which is no small feat. Bynum was looking like an All-Star, until we saw what a real All-Star looked like in Gasol. And I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that we can expect Gasol to once again represent the West in years to come, at least as a reserve choice for the All-Star game.
I think “Swollen Pinky” makes an interesting point. Definitely, Gasol’s game is easier now because Kobe demands a double-team and (especially this year) passes so well out of it. Gasol used to be the focal point but can now play off of Kobe, as evidenced by his higher PPG, FG% while shooting less shots per game.
I think Bynum’s improvement can also be attributed to Kobe somewhat. When Bynum showed that he is willing to work hard during the off-season and come into training camp ready to take his game to the next level, Kobe encouraged him and put his trust in him, so that Bynum’s confidence grew.
I’m not sure that Kobe did much for Kwame. Granted, someone that is as good as Kobe will always make the game somewhat easier for his teammates — e.g., no team is stupid enough to double-team another Laker off of Kobe. But I’m not sure how much better Kwame became as a result of Kobe. Pretty much status quo, in my opinion.
Finally, in Shaq’s case, I think they both made each other better in the sense that having two dominant players always make it harder for the opponent to focus their defensive efforts on a single player. However, although Shaq never won a championship before playing with Kobe, he was already the most dominant big man before coming to the Lakers and had already been to the NBA Finals once.
With that said, I am excited about Kobe’s game this year. He is much more trusting of teammates and does a lot to make the game easier for them. He really has been the facilitator. If he is not assisting on a play, then he often is making the pass that leads to the assist. Plus, he still is (after he got through the initial part of the season when he was in a mild slump) the best closer in the game.
Hey… I think “Swollen Pinky’ is right on, but I have felt that way for years. Folks always talk about how fortunate Phil Jackson is for having super-stars but when was the last time Shaq was not being fed the ball by an all-star guard? Penny, Kobe, Wade and now Nash. While Nash won’t draw double teams, the others always did/have. Hasn’t that always created space for Shaq to operate? It is easy to fall in love with Shaq the showman. However, folks tend to do that at the expense of considering his entire game. He is foul prone. So much so that Jackson changed the Lakers defense to keep him in the game. The reason he is foul prone is because he lacks dedication (effort) on defense as well as he is slow to the ball. He has never been more than an average shot blocker. In fact he now avoids blocking shots for fear of fouling. He has never been much better than an average rebounder. He is terrible on the pick and roll. He was so bad that he made Kwame Brown’s defense look great. Both LO and Marion who replaced Shaq are better rebounders. He cannot make a foul shot to save his life. The claim that he makes them when they count only covers for the fact that he has to because he missed all the others putting games in jeopardy that never should have been close. Teams built their entire defenses around fouling Shaq at the end of games. Who can forget the Hack-a-Shaq? THE NBA EVEN CHANGED THE RULES TO HELP HIM. And still he flat out avoids the ball late in games for fear of having to go to the line.
Can you imagine what it would be like if the NBA used a true 1 and 1? Would Shaq have ever won a title? He’d have been a huge liability. With a true 1 and 1 and no creative rule changes that basically said “Shaq, don’t worry about not being able to make a foul shot. We’ll just give the ball back to your team make or miss.” this is how a game would go… Foul Shaq. He misses the first shot. Get the rebound. Run down and shoot. Foul Shaq. He misses the first shot. Get the rebound. Run down and shoot… Shaq’s team would never get a shot off. It would be a perfect defense. You’d only need enough players to foul him and 25% shooting on your end to keep the score even (assuming Shaq is making 50% of his foul shots – which he isn’t even doing this year). I tell you, if that were the case, Shaq would never step on the floor the last 5 minutes of any game. No coach would risk it.
As far as being the dominant big man - and don’t get me wrong, he has been good if not entertaining – go back and watch the tapes. It was Kobe that owned the Spurs each time Shaq and company faced them in the playoffs. I believe Kobe averaged something like 35 points a game against them in the playoffs. Somebody look that up for me. Did Shaq dominate Duncan and Robinson? And I may be one of the few guys out there that is not really so impressed with Tim Duncan but if Kwame can tie him up and Shaq never could, where does that really put Shaq?
Jon makes good points. Nevertheless, I believe Shaq and Kobe together carried the Lakers to the championships, not Kobe carrying Shaq by himself. My point was that, just as much as Kobe did for Shaq, Shaq did for Kobe. Shaq got to the finals with Penny, won 3 championships with Kobe (also got to one and lost), and won 1 with Wade. Kobe, so far, has only 3 championships with Shaq. I think (and hope, as a Laker fan and a Kobe fan) that, with Bynum and Gasol, Kobe will win a few more.
All this says is something we all know — you need two to three super stars and very good role players to build a dynasty or even a mini-dynasty. Magic/Kareem/Worthy/Scott. Bird/McHale/Parrish/Johnson. Thomas/Dumars/Laimbeer/Rodman. Jordan/Pippen/Grant/Rodman. Shaq/Kobe/Fox/Horry. Robinson/Duncan/Ginobli/Parker. Etc. Etc.
Did (does) Shaq have weaknesses? The answer is a resounding “yes”. However, his strengths were great also. During the 3 seasons the Lakers won championships (1999-2002), Shaq’s numbers were pretty impressive.
Year PPG RPG BPG FG%
1999 29.7 13.6 3.0 .574
2000 28.7 12.7 2.8 .572
2001 27.2 10.7 2.0 .579
Despite Jon’s criticism of Shaq’s inability to block shots, his 3.0 BPG in the 1999-2000 season was 3rd best in the league after Mourning and Mutombo and would rank #3 in the league this year. Shaq also led the league in PPG and FG% and was 2nd behind Mutombo in RPG. And of course, he won the MVP award that year.
In the playoffs, he generally improved his numbers and led the team in both scoring and rebounds.
Year PPG RPG BPG FG%
1999 30.7 15.4 2.4 .566
2000 30.4 15.4 2.4 .555
2001 28.5 12.6 2.5 .529
So, to say Kobe carried Shaq in the playoffs seems insane. Again, I think they played off of one another and both were very successful. I think we just expect more because of his size and natural abilities, especially when contrasted against Kobe’s out-of-this-world work ethic. Maybe that’s fair, maybe that’s not. But the point is that Shaq was really really good during the prime of his career.
In terms of Shaq’s weaknesses, I totally agree that he was foul-prone and his free-throw shooting was horrendous. But as Laker fans, I think we were more frustrated because Shaq always seemed not to care as much as Kobe (and I think he probably did not in reality) but had all the tools anyone could ever want in a big man. Nevertheless, the numbers were not as bad as we all seem to remember:
Year PF FT%
1999 3.2 .524
2000 3.5 .513
2001 3.0 .555
Shaq’s fouls per game were comparable to Kobe’s. (I am not saying Shaq was an excellent defender or that we can fairly compare him to Kobe in terms of defensive abilities and intensity. Shaq is average while Kobe is one of the best.) And Shaq’s poor free-throwing was not the first of its kind. Wilt, one of the best players ever (and definitely one of the top 2 or 3 centers ever), shot .511 over his career and shot under 50% in 7 seasons, with his low being .380 in the 1967-8 season. There have always been players who struggle at the line, and teams have worked their way around the issue.
My point was never that Shaq is still great. So I’m not even going to bother arguing whether Shaq is a better rebounder than Marion or LO. I am not an apologist for Shaq, but rather I’m just a realist who happens to be a Lakers and Kobe fan. But suffice it to say, he averages 7.8 per game, or more accurately, 13.1 per 48 minutes. Marion and LO respectively average 10.1 and 10.0 per game, and 13.1 and 13.0 per 48 minutes. So, to me, the issue is that Shaq has (and had for the past 8 years) a problem of getting in shape, staying in shape and staying healthy, not that Shaq is a bad rebounder. Could he be better given his size and frame and God-given gifts? Absolutely. But to simply say he is a relatively poor rebounder misses the crux of the issue.
Shaq was the best center of his generation — i.e., after Hakeem and before D. Howard. He will probably go down as one of the best 5 centers of all time. But at the same time, the other Laker fans and I will remember him as someone who could have been possibly the best center of all time had he focused on staying in shape during the off-season, improving his free throws and maintaining defensive intensity and had he focused on winning more than entertaining. Oh, what could have been…
Well done TSKer…
I only have a couple of issues:
First, your numbers are 7 years old. I’m not sure that I said or if I did, meant to say that he was not good - heck, the way he dominated SAC was amazing – I am just saying that folks love to ignore his bad for his good because they like him so much.
Second, I don’t think I said Kobe carried Shaq. I did say Shaq tends to get too much credit because he has been there or close with three different teams while they often ignore that in each case he has an all-star guard feeding him the ball. Also, we constantly hear from pundits that all of these all-star guards were fortunate that they had Shaq demanding double teams creating space for them to work yet we never hear from these folks that these all-star guards also made it possible for Shaq to have room to operate. Even more important, if the team needed a big basket at the end of the game for a win, I can think of only once did that big shot come from Shaq.
Third, Shaq is and has been for many, many years one of the worst centers in the league defending the pick and roll. His constant lack commitment shown by jumping the pick always left his guards constantly in bad shape (sorry, soccer term).
Fourth, I hate the use of whatever/48 minutes. If Shaq could go 48 and get 13 do you think he wouldn’t? It isn’t about what he could do if he were in shape – or old. However they excuse it (not that you do but I’ve heard nothing but excuses so far this year). It is about what he does do and in terms of winning more titles, what you can realistically expect him to do in the future. Another statistic I hate because it can be so misleading is FG%. If you really want to make FG% relevant you at least have to take into consideration where (1, 2, 3, etc.) they play. If you are a 5 you better be making over 50% of your shots.
Enough of this though. I am 100% with you. He could have been special – or at least more special. All of the things that folks want to forgive Shaq for though, none applied to Kareem. Kareem worked as hard as anyone to stay in shape. He shot a healthy free throw percentage. He was far more well rounded offensively. He was never accused of being uninterested in team defense… etc. So I find it hard to swallow when folks say Shaq is one of the best when what I think they should be saying is he could have been if he had the heart for it. Sure Shaq likes to talk about heart but until he finds enough dedication to get himself into the kind of shape that Kareem kept himself at or that Kobe keeps himself at, I just can’t buy it – or excuse it. He under achieved and that was his choice. But then so do 98% of all athletes.
I stopped being a Shaq fan the day he said “I got hurt on team time. I’ll heal on team time.” My gosh, if there is any one contrast between Kobe and Shaq it is this. Shaq, rather than having his toe repaired in June when it was diagnosed that he needed surgery, waited until October to do it. What did he miss that year? 30 games? I can’t seem to remember exactly. Kobe on the other hand, when it is diagnosed that he needs surgery and that he will miss 2 months or risk severe permanent damage to his hand chooses to wait until it is HIS time to have the surgery – not wanting to let his team down.
And they talk about Kobe being selfish. Talk about bad is good and good is bad.
That being said, you can bet that anything I have to say about Shaq will most likely be shaded towards what I feel and not necessarily as accurate as it could be otherwise. I admit that and understand the flaws in it but hey, I’m a fan. I get to be irrational if I want to be.